西洋棋謎題(加入棋子)原創! - 西洋棋
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By Olga
at 2011-06-24T14:49
at 2011-06-24T14:49
Table of Contents
※ 引述《DreamYeh (天使)》之銘言:
:這樣大家不知道還有什麼不同想法呢?希望能理性冷靜討論...
sure,這篇非常理性討論,請天使大回一下吧:)
--
我整理一下天使大的意思:
對於當初那題
死亡判定法:
(1-1).假設這局面已經存在,(須排譜?)
(2).由上一步死亡判定得知城堡沒動過
(3).可解題,但事後必須再度證明局面合法,須排譜
我的反證法:
(1-1).假設此局面已經存在,(須排譜?)
(1-2).假設題目兩步將得死
(2).如果沒有1-2,就無法得知城堡是否沒動過,所以尚且無法解題
有1-2,就可以解題.
(3).一樣,最後要排譜來證明當初合法
--
如果這是你的意思,那太好了,我們想法是一致的
而我一直想說的只是,死亡判定也用了(1-1). 這個假設,
因為我的 "假設題目有解" 這句話就多少包含了 (1-1)和(1-2)
千真萬確,我一開始是認為這兩者等價,因為我一直把"題目當成完全對的"
t大當初一直反駁我的"假設題目有解",所以我就一直認為他反對(1-1)這假設
如果按照天使這篇說的,只有(1-1)可以用,那一切都沒問題了,
我的答案確實比死亡判定不足了點.
那我上一篇說的,當下局面存在可以證明城堡沒動過是錯的
因為我當時思考邏輯是,把1-1 1-2 合為一體
--
只是..無法確認城堡沒動過這一點,依然可以用在其他子上囉!
我是否也可以提問:[死亡判定如何確認白主教沒有被吃掉?]
甚至是:[死亡判定如何確認黑王前13手沒有被將死?] 等等
這跟 [如何確認城堡沒動過] 幾乎是等價的問題
死亡判定能證明城堡沒動過,不也無法證明其他的? 那些不也是要靠假設、默認?
如果其他的可以用默認,那我為何不能默認城堡沒動過?
你可能會說,因為城堡有沒有動過,比較關鍵. 可這完全是主觀想法,
那我可以說,城堡沒有動過很容易,不需要特別證明,不是嗎?
--
延伸討論..
現在解題者都為了方便(大部分)不排譜,那不排譜的情況下,
假設題目有解不就是逼不得已的手段嗎!
的確冒著可能被題目欺騙的風險,但這責任似乎是出題者比較重吧!?
--
再次解釋,我原本假設題目有解,就包含了"假設當下局面存在且合法"的意思
如果不是這樣,請你想想,我是以什麼思維推出只能入堡的??
我不喜歡玩文字遊戲,如果你要爭這個就隨你吧!
--
:這樣大家不知道還有什麼不同想法呢?希望能理性冷靜討論...
sure,這篇非常理性討論,請天使大回一下吧:)
--
我整理一下天使大的意思:
對於當初那題
死亡判定法:
(1-1).假設這局面已經存在,(須排譜?)
(2).由上一步死亡判定得知城堡沒動過
(3).可解題,但事後必須再度證明局面合法,須排譜
我的反證法:
(1-1).假設此局面已經存在,(須排譜?)
(1-2).假設題目兩步將得死
(2).如果沒有1-2,就無法得知城堡是否沒動過,所以尚且無法解題
有1-2,就可以解題.
(3).一樣,最後要排譜來證明當初合法
--
如果這是你的意思,那太好了,我們想法是一致的
而我一直想說的只是,死亡判定也用了(1-1). 這個假設,
因為我的 "假設題目有解" 這句話就多少包含了 (1-1)和(1-2)
千真萬確,我一開始是認為這兩者等價,因為我一直把"題目當成完全對的"
t大當初一直反駁我的"假設題目有解",所以我就一直認為他反對(1-1)這假設
如果按照天使這篇說的,只有(1-1)可以用,那一切都沒問題了,
我的答案確實比死亡判定不足了點.
那我上一篇說的,當下局面存在可以證明城堡沒動過是錯的
因為我當時思考邏輯是,把1-1 1-2 合為一體
--
只是..無法確認城堡沒動過這一點,依然可以用在其他子上囉!
我是否也可以提問:[死亡判定如何確認白主教沒有被吃掉?]
甚至是:[死亡判定如何確認黑王前13手沒有被將死?] 等等
這跟 [如何確認城堡沒動過] 幾乎是等價的問題
死亡判定能證明城堡沒動過,不也無法證明其他的? 那些不也是要靠假設、默認?
如果其他的可以用默認,那我為何不能默認城堡沒動過?
你可能會說,因為城堡有沒有動過,比較關鍵. 可這完全是主觀想法,
那我可以說,城堡沒有動過很容易,不需要特別證明,不是嗎?
--
延伸討論..
現在解題者都為了方便(大部分)不排譜,那不排譜的情況下,
假設題目有解不就是逼不得已的手段嗎!
的確冒著可能被題目欺騙的風險,但這責任似乎是出題者比較重吧!?
--
推 kohttp:那如果這題套不到死亡判斷,小龜的解答有幾分? 06/24 13:12
→ terrorlone:那我就要先問你你是指他哪一天幾分幾秒的答案囉 06/24 13:13
→ terrorlone:因為他一而再再而三地想變更他的說法來狡辯,我可不想 06/24 13:13
→ terrorlone:掉入這種無聊至極的圈套 06/24 13:13
再次解釋,我原本假設題目有解,就包含了"假設當下局面存在且合法"的意思
如果不是這樣,請你想想,我是以什麼思維推出只能入堡的??
我不喜歡玩文字遊戲,如果你要爭這個就隨你吧!
--
Tags:
西洋棋
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