關於上限,關於RNG - 爐石戰記

By Emma
at 2015-12-23T01:18
at 2015-12-23T01:18
Table of Contents
哈囉大家好,我是阿一
今天想跟大家談談一個爐石所沒有的機制
我在這邊把它稱為"上限"
我認為這是一個很重要的機制,但BZ卻沒有設計
那我想,要請各位聽我長篇大論之前要先拿出人權
http://imgur.com/mNFa3it
這是前兩季最高的時候的排名,上過5季傳說(含這季)
首先先簡單介紹一下我所謂的上限是怎麼運作的
相信各位都有看過獵人,不是雷克薩..是漫畫
裡面念能力的運作就有類似於制約,上限這樣的概念
在獵人的設定當中,念能力越強,所受到的限制就會越大
比如庫拉皮卡的鎖鍊只能對幻影旅團的人使用
或者是炸彈魔甘舒要引爆炸彈所需要的觸發條件
有了這些限制,才不會有過於強大卻又沒有上限的腳色存在
而爐石很明顯的因為沒有上限這樣的機制,所以常常造成了用非常小的費用,卻確獲得了非常大的效果
這種情況我相信是不願意見到的,因為這會讓對手感到相當不愉悅
當然我們要知道爐石是一款卡牌對戰遊戲,運氣成分是一定有的
但爐石的運氣成份真的太重了
以下用各個單卡來說明,我所要表達的上限機制該如何運作
先讓我們來當一下考古學家,看看BZ如果有上限這個機制可以如何調整以前OP的單卡
奇蹟賊:盜賊的黃金年代,四費的抽不停拍賣師,沒有大帝也能打出一套20+的COMBO!
相信資深一點的玩家一定都體驗過那個在拍賣師+隱蔽之後,就可以兩手攤攤看對面表演的年代
因為下一回合他可以近乎無限的濾牌加上解場,在下一回合,就會被幾乎全滿的手牌打出一套傷害20上下的COMBO
讓我們來找找問題在哪,是那COMBO傷害太高太誇張嗎?
我們來算算三近三出的炸雞勇者要幾張牌跟多少費用才能打出一套玩美的COMBO
炸雞勇者(4費)+暗影閃現(0+2)+暗影閃現(0+2)+冷血(1)+冷血(1)=10費5張26傷害,9費4張22傷害,8費3張18傷害
我認為這樣的COMBO是不誇張的,對於濾牌能力不佳又很難撐到後期的盜賊來說
要留滿五張COMBO牌卡在手上在一波打你26血是非常難達成的
而讓奇積賊如此輝煌的無非是能一回合濾牌無上限的拍賣師,在一回合內濾牌解場集一身真的非常惱人
而BZ對於此OP牌組的應對方法是:改拍賣師為6費,炸雞勇者也改為5費
從此奇蹟賊死去,比賽在也看不到如此有趣的盜賊牌組
奴隸戰:戰士第二型態!不再只有控制戰的存在,快攻剋星,控制殺手
這個就不用多作介紹了,最近才剛剛死去的奴隸戰相信大家應該都記憶猶新
奴隸戰強在哪?我就是用奴隸戰爬到亞服#4的,相信我應該有些許資格能評論這個爭議很多的牌組
奴隸是強在戰歌+雙白沫的combo嗎?我認為不是的
如果這combo真的這麼強,為什麼以前沒有出現過?
這邊筆者想跟大家在一次強調,我認為湊牌湊combo是需要非常繁雜計算的過程
你可能只會覺得自己被德魯依兩張牌打14點血秒殺,或是被雙白沫旋風斬撞個30+血量
但你有沒有想過,對手在湊這些combo的時候他犧牲了些甚麼?
就德魯依來說他要剛好9費兩張牌打你14點血,他就需要在前面八回合手上留著兩張牌不能出
他要在少了那兩張牌的情況下打你16點血,這真的很無腦簡單嗎?我的答案是"不"
所以對於這種湊牌combo的我一概是保持正面態度,毫不排斥
回到正題,奴隸戰強的點我認為在於生不完的3/3奴隸,只要你沒辦法"一堆"造成2~3點傷害
他的奴隸就可能無限再生,還有另一個真正強的點
就是戰鬥狂怒!一張二費卡可能可以抽4~8張牌,這你覺得合理嗎?
相信我,只要沒有戰鬥狂怒這張牌,奴隸戰不可能有資格稱的上頂尖強度
而bz應對的方法是把戰歌指揮官完全殺死,一個安逸活了這麼久的單卡就這樣莫名死去了
我剛看到bz這樣改的時候我只覺得很荒謬,就像是第一次被潮潮朋友騙出去玩樂的宅宅
出事的時候卻是宅宅扛下來一樣荒謬,到底乾戰歌甚麼事?
而bz這樣的改法結果是,有戰歌的奴隸戰死去!比賽一樣再也看不到這麼有趣的湊牌OTK
新式奴隸戰則是在一樣能無限自我生殖的情況下佔有一定地位
舉了上面兩個例子相信各位都懂我想表達甚麼了
能夠無限抽卡,無限自我繁殖,2費抽一堆卡的原因
才是以前這些牌組強的地方,但BZ卻都不限制這些功能
而是直接把這兩個牌組想方法砍死
老實說,奇蹟賊跟奴隸戰的完全死去真的對遊戲更有幫助嗎?
明明有很簡單能夠限制這兩套牌的方法,為甚麼要直接讓他們死去?
一個腸胃炎的病人,醫生卻把他腳鋸了這樣合理嗎?
一個前所未有甚至到現在也沒在出現的有趣打法,就這樣只能留在玩家的記憶裡了
所以我認為倘若能增加一個效果"上限",就能夠不讓這兩套牌過強
而且也有玩的本錢
比如說:拍賣師:上限:最多一回合抽2張
奴隸主:上限:最多自我繁殖2次
戰鬥狂怒:上限:最多只能抽3張
這就是我所要說的上限的概念,以下用現在我認為需要用上限來加以限制的一些單卡
用職業來分
獵人:
放狗:上限:最多3隻,且改回以前的2費
山羊牧人:上限:會召喚介於3~6費的野獸
禿鷲:上限:最多抽3張,一樣改回2費
聖騎士:
神恩術:上限:最多抽5張
神秘挑戰者:上限:最多拉出3個秘密
薩滿:
1費穴居怪:上限:最多增加4點攻擊力
術士:
爆破小鬼:上限:召喚的小鬼數量和傷害總合為6
虛無呼喚者:上限:最多能召喚出5費以下的惡魔
這邊我要稍微碎念一下,4費死掉叫一隻9費且立即有效果的東西出來
BZ真的覺得這樣很合理很有技巧嗎...
接著我們繼續談談關於RNG,Random Number Generation 的縮寫,隨機機率之意
卡牌遊戲,運氣一定有好有壞,但我認為單純因為好運就拿到過大的優勢是非常有問題的
而BZ似乎完全不這麼認為,他們很喜歡隨機區間過大的東西
拿最猛的單卡爆爆博士來說,我說那個炸彈隨機1~4點會不會太扯?
舉個例子,T8的法師,血量22,場上有幻焰者,對面德魯依場上只有爆爆博士跟他的炸彈
法師用了4費的火球術+天生技清光德魯依的場,而德魯依的炸彈2顆都炸在臉上總共8點傷害
下一回合,法師死了,這到底是WTF?這個法師有做錯任何事情嗎,沒有,就因為運氣太差
被兩個"1費"的東西給殺了,而德魯依有做甚麼事情嗎?
沒有,就因為炸彈太好運太會炸了,明明雙面就近乎是使用一樣的費用跟卡片數
卻會因為"運氣"讓你多噴了8點血
我覺得這種變數過大的隨機是很病態的,這也跟上面提到的上限概念有點類似
還有爆破小鬼也是個非常好的例子,同樣的一張卡卻能因為運氣
造成2點傷害跟2張1/1惡魔的差距,BZ你摸著良心,你覺得2費傷害跟2張1/1小鬼
在不費任何手牌跟費用的情況下出現在場上,這價值有多高?
有多少的比賽是因為炸彈跟爆破小鬼的2or4造成完全不一樣的結果?
有多少的比賽是因為虛無呼喚者拉出9/7而在也無法逆轉?
有多少的牌組是因為毫無代價的抽卡能力而稱霸Meta?
我認為不該有無上限的能力,也不該有變數區間過大的機率
運氣成分是一定會有,但當你只因為"運氣"而被打爆的時候
這遊戲就一點也不有趣了
(如果有人認同我的文章,且有心能翻譯轉貼外國爐石網站的話
懸賞3000P)
--
今天想跟大家談談一個爐石所沒有的機制
我在這邊把它稱為"上限"
我認為這是一個很重要的機制,但BZ卻沒有設計
那我想,要請各位聽我長篇大論之前要先拿出人權
http://imgur.com/mNFa3it
這是前兩季最高的時候的排名,上過5季傳說(含這季)
首先先簡單介紹一下我所謂的上限是怎麼運作的
相信各位都有看過獵人,不是雷克薩..是漫畫
裡面念能力的運作就有類似於制約,上限這樣的概念
在獵人的設定當中,念能力越強,所受到的限制就會越大
比如庫拉皮卡的鎖鍊只能對幻影旅團的人使用
或者是炸彈魔甘舒要引爆炸彈所需要的觸發條件
有了這些限制,才不會有過於強大卻又沒有上限的腳色存在
而爐石很明顯的因為沒有上限這樣的機制,所以常常造成了用非常小的費用,卻確獲得了非常大的效果
這種情況我相信是不願意見到的,因為這會讓對手感到相當不愉悅
當然我們要知道爐石是一款卡牌對戰遊戲,運氣成分是一定有的
但爐石的運氣成份真的太重了
以下用各個單卡來說明,我所要表達的上限機制該如何運作
先讓我們來當一下考古學家,看看BZ如果有上限這個機制可以如何調整以前OP的單卡
奇蹟賊:盜賊的黃金年代,四費的抽不停拍賣師,沒有大帝也能打出一套20+的COMBO!
相信資深一點的玩家一定都體驗過那個在拍賣師+隱蔽之後,就可以兩手攤攤看對面表演的年代
因為下一回合他可以近乎無限的濾牌加上解場,在下一回合,就會被幾乎全滿的手牌打出一套傷害20上下的COMBO
讓我們來找找問題在哪,是那COMBO傷害太高太誇張嗎?
我們來算算三近三出的炸雞勇者要幾張牌跟多少費用才能打出一套玩美的COMBO
炸雞勇者(4費)+暗影閃現(0+2)+暗影閃現(0+2)+冷血(1)+冷血(1)=10費5張26傷害,9費4張22傷害,8費3張18傷害
我認為這樣的COMBO是不誇張的,對於濾牌能力不佳又很難撐到後期的盜賊來說
要留滿五張COMBO牌卡在手上在一波打你26血是非常難達成的
而讓奇積賊如此輝煌的無非是能一回合濾牌無上限的拍賣師,在一回合內濾牌解場集一身真的非常惱人
而BZ對於此OP牌組的應對方法是:改拍賣師為6費,炸雞勇者也改為5費
從此奇蹟賊死去,比賽在也看不到如此有趣的盜賊牌組
奴隸戰:戰士第二型態!不再只有控制戰的存在,快攻剋星,控制殺手
這個就不用多作介紹了,最近才剛剛死去的奴隸戰相信大家應該都記憶猶新
奴隸戰強在哪?我就是用奴隸戰爬到亞服#4的,相信我應該有些許資格能評論這個爭議很多的牌組
奴隸是強在戰歌+雙白沫的combo嗎?我認為不是的
如果這combo真的這麼強,為什麼以前沒有出現過?
這邊筆者想跟大家在一次強調,我認為湊牌湊combo是需要非常繁雜計算的過程
你可能只會覺得自己被德魯依兩張牌打14點血秒殺,或是被雙白沫旋風斬撞個30+血量
但你有沒有想過,對手在湊這些combo的時候他犧牲了些甚麼?
就德魯依來說他要剛好9費兩張牌打你14點血,他就需要在前面八回合手上留著兩張牌不能出
他要在少了那兩張牌的情況下打你16點血,這真的很無腦簡單嗎?我的答案是"不"
所以對於這種湊牌combo的我一概是保持正面態度,毫不排斥
回到正題,奴隸戰強的點我認為在於生不完的3/3奴隸,只要你沒辦法"一堆"造成2~3點傷害
他的奴隸就可能無限再生,還有另一個真正強的點
就是戰鬥狂怒!一張二費卡可能可以抽4~8張牌,這你覺得合理嗎?
相信我,只要沒有戰鬥狂怒這張牌,奴隸戰不可能有資格稱的上頂尖強度
而bz應對的方法是把戰歌指揮官完全殺死,一個安逸活了這麼久的單卡就這樣莫名死去了
我剛看到bz這樣改的時候我只覺得很荒謬,就像是第一次被潮潮朋友騙出去玩樂的宅宅
出事的時候卻是宅宅扛下來一樣荒謬,到底乾戰歌甚麼事?
而bz這樣的改法結果是,有戰歌的奴隸戰死去!比賽一樣再也看不到這麼有趣的湊牌OTK
新式奴隸戰則是在一樣能無限自我生殖的情況下佔有一定地位
舉了上面兩個例子相信各位都懂我想表達甚麼了
能夠無限抽卡,無限自我繁殖,2費抽一堆卡的原因
才是以前這些牌組強的地方,但BZ卻都不限制這些功能
而是直接把這兩個牌組想方法砍死
老實說,奇蹟賊跟奴隸戰的完全死去真的對遊戲更有幫助嗎?
明明有很簡單能夠限制這兩套牌的方法,為甚麼要直接讓他們死去?
一個腸胃炎的病人,醫生卻把他腳鋸了這樣合理嗎?
一個前所未有甚至到現在也沒在出現的有趣打法,就這樣只能留在玩家的記憶裡了
所以我認為倘若能增加一個效果"上限",就能夠不讓這兩套牌過強
而且也有玩的本錢
比如說:拍賣師:上限:最多一回合抽2張
奴隸主:上限:最多自我繁殖2次
戰鬥狂怒:上限:最多只能抽3張
這就是我所要說的上限的概念,以下用現在我認為需要用上限來加以限制的一些單卡
用職業來分
獵人:
放狗:上限:最多3隻,且改回以前的2費
山羊牧人:上限:會召喚介於3~6費的野獸
禿鷲:上限:最多抽3張,一樣改回2費
聖騎士:
神恩術:上限:最多抽5張
神秘挑戰者:上限:最多拉出3個秘密
薩滿:
1費穴居怪:上限:最多增加4點攻擊力
術士:
爆破小鬼:上限:召喚的小鬼數量和傷害總合為6
虛無呼喚者:上限:最多能召喚出5費以下的惡魔
這邊我要稍微碎念一下,4費死掉叫一隻9費且立即有效果的東西出來
BZ真的覺得這樣很合理很有技巧嗎...
接著我們繼續談談關於RNG,Random Number Generation 的縮寫,隨機機率之意
卡牌遊戲,運氣一定有好有壞,但我認為單純因為好運就拿到過大的優勢是非常有問題的
而BZ似乎完全不這麼認為,他們很喜歡隨機區間過大的東西
拿最猛的單卡爆爆博士來說,我說那個炸彈隨機1~4點會不會太扯?
舉個例子,T8的法師,血量22,場上有幻焰者,對面德魯依場上只有爆爆博士跟他的炸彈
法師用了4費的火球術+天生技清光德魯依的場,而德魯依的炸彈2顆都炸在臉上總共8點傷害
下一回合,法師死了,這到底是WTF?這個法師有做錯任何事情嗎,沒有,就因為運氣太差
被兩個"1費"的東西給殺了,而德魯依有做甚麼事情嗎?
沒有,就因為炸彈太好運太會炸了,明明雙面就近乎是使用一樣的費用跟卡片數
卻會因為"運氣"讓你多噴了8點血
我覺得這種變數過大的隨機是很病態的,這也跟上面提到的上限概念有點類似
還有爆破小鬼也是個非常好的例子,同樣的一張卡卻能因為運氣
造成2點傷害跟2張1/1惡魔的差距,BZ你摸著良心,你覺得2費傷害跟2張1/1小鬼
在不費任何手牌跟費用的情況下出現在場上,這價值有多高?
有多少的比賽是因為炸彈跟爆破小鬼的2or4造成完全不一樣的結果?
有多少的比賽是因為虛無呼喚者拉出9/7而在也無法逆轉?
有多少的牌組是因為毫無代價的抽卡能力而稱霸Meta?
我認為不該有無上限的能力,也不該有變數區間過大的機率
運氣成分是一定會有,但當你只因為"運氣"而被打爆的時候
這遊戲就一點也不有趣了
(如果有人認同我的文章,且有心能翻譯轉貼外國爐石網站的話
懸賞3000P)
--
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