代打的定義?為了首殺找人代打值得嗎? - WOW
By Zanna
at 2020-03-03T05:22
at 2020-03-03T05:22
Table of Contents
大家好~小弟是Asgard退休人員前公會RL,
自從首推珍娜之後我就淡出公會團的運作了,
最近版本末尾王拓荒,看起來弄出了一些紛爭
版上風向帶起來了,剛好最近比較閒。我想針對一些點來討論一下
避免一些不實言論,越傳越誇張。
目前ASG尾王拓荒的武僧坦克是100%的台灣人,他不是我們請來的中國工作室玩家,
也沒有花任何金錢雇用他來打首殺。
他在台服的角色從6版末期就待在ASG公會。是我們公會有史以來技術最好的坦克之一。
可以算他是旅中選手。台服舞台太小了,有志向又有時間的玩家,一定會朝向中國發展
再從中前進歐美服,就像台服之光蘇趴哥一樣。
第二ASG以前是沒有在嘴甚麼中國玩家的,我們甚至有很長一段時間也是中國玩家擔任RL
如果這一年來,因為台灣價值高漲,公會人員在板上有過激言論。我也覺得太超過。
這點也可以算是道德上有瑕疵。我個人認為應該避免強調玩家或是公會的國籍問題。
第三武僧坦克"西熙",恩若司副本只打了一週,就因為重病開刀無法繼續拓荒,所以現任RL
就開了他的帳號進行了1-11M的拓荒。當然因為他坦克的功力太爛,所以我想被F工會反超
是可以預期的,因為他坦克技術水準不夠。嚴重拖累了公會團。
但是他也是代開了打1-11M,可是因為A會進度落後F會,似乎就沒有人出來指責他道德瑕疵ꄊ
所以我可以解讀為代開贏了才有道德問題,需要進行公審。
可是我看了文章,我不太明白Forza覺得嚴重道德瑕疵的點是哪一個
1. 玩家開不是自己註冊的帳號拓荒,代開-道德瑕疵。
2. 請了旅中選手回來協助拓荒開不是本人帳號導致進度反超-道德瑕疵。
如果是第一點,這個坦克在離開時,已經親口告知RL將帳號所有權讓RL全權處理。
如果帳號是個人資產,他無償讓公會使用,因為農團已經拿滿裝了,臨時換坦根本沒有符
合拓荒強度需求的坦克,難道ASG只能重新培養沒裝備的坦克,也不能使用他提供的帳號?
如果真的嚴重道德瑕疵。我只想請問,為什麼ASG進度落後的時候沒有人提出來這件事情。
去年2月拓荒珍娜的時候,我還在團內,那時候公會團只有培養一個DH,但是偏偏那位DH
在拓荒期非常忙碌。可是因為這版裝備機制導致他身上都是超高裝等的神裝。
我也代開他帳號拓荒了好幾天,因為需要DH的BUFF。如果真得非常在意帳號只能本人開
把這點無限上綱的話,從遠古到現在,我敢保證87%的台服進度公會都有過類似狀況。
但是因為跟首殺沒有關係,所以就沒有道德問題? Forza的意思好像是只要有過這樣的行為
就是道德淪喪十惡不赦。那,我希望這個標準可以一視同仁而不僅限於搶首殺的公會。
當然,就規章來說這個是不符規定,ASG公會有不得已的帳號代開行為,我們有道德瑕疵
在此跟台服玩家致歉,身為台服部落PVE代表公會,我們做了不好的示範。
但是如果今天是我面對同樣情況,我可能也會繼續使用該坦克的帳號拓荒。
因為帳號養成不是這麼容易,聽說這版BOE裝備又超貴難取得。我可能也會承受這樣的罵名
繼續使用該帳號。
第二點就是旅中選手的問題了,如果今天佶天鴻神坦什而拓荒結束回來原公會幫忙,
但是是開自己在ASG公會的人物,請問有沒有代開代打的道德問題?
換了一個有經驗的坦克導致進度反超是很明顯的事情,但是如果他今天是開自己台服人物
你會來這邊噴ASG公會代開嗎? 如果你覺得他開自己人物就沒有代開問題呢。
那我就針對ASG拿了生病的坦克捐獻的帳號給他代開這件事情,跟台服玩家說聲抱歉。
我們公會思慮不週,我也會希望它們盡量使用自己的人物去拓荒。
反過來說,我還記得當年拓荒7版古爾丹時。台服之光蘇趴哥,也在打完國服拓荒之後
回台服打PTT公會的尾王拓荒團,甚至也是指揮之一,當然他用的是自己的角色。
我很好奇在Forza的標準內,這樣是不是代打呢?
如果打過歐美服跟中國全破進度,再回來比較進度落後的台服打就被禁止,
我不知道有這樣的規章。
以前工作室代打搶首殺被罵是因為
1. 金錢交易。
2. 直接全團都是工作室開角色,一把過,沒有拓荒的過程。
3. 工作室跟拿成就的公會毫無關聯。
4. 不公平
但是ASG的狀況是
1. 沒有金錢交易
2. 只有一個坦克回來幫忙,還是有拓荒團滅的過程,至少我今天看實況還是在一直滅團
3. 此坦克本來就是ASG公會的人,而且在此公會拓荒了6年以上
4. 不公平
對!其實Forza只是想說的是ASG請了一個有經驗的坦克回來打
不 公 平 ! 拿了首殺勝之不武。甚麼代開都是包裝這個核心理由的好看講法而已。
真的要講,ASG是利用了旅中選手的坦克優勢,在尾王"目前"逆轉了進度沒錯,
是不是無所不用其極拚首殺? 是
是不是ASG資源較多,有旅中選手的經驗? 是
是不是讓人覺得不公平? 是
是不是看ASG不爽? 當然是
但是暴雪沒有說打過歐美服中國服進度比較快的人不能回來台服拓荒吧?
如果要黑ASG代開別人帳號拓荒,這點我覺得確實有違反規章。也歡迎蒐證檢舉
但如前所述,該坦克已將帳號所有權轉交給RL全權使用。
所以請不要用這個去包裝美化你真正想黑的點。
Forza只是覺得ASG找了一個全破過的坦克回來幫忙拓荒進度反超,不公平。
但是這條真的沒有在暴雪的規章內。PVE拓荒這個競賽。
是玩家之間自己的競爭,暴雪並沒有提供獎金,在台服來說也沒有任何贊助收益。
講白一點wowprogress的排名根本也不是暴雪承認的。
只有雙方的名人堂是官方認可的。
可是部落的公會怎麼能去影響聯盟F會的名人堂資格呢?
而且,首殺還沒結束,搞不好F會也會有更強力的武器來反超ASG
為什麼都一副ASG已經全破的講法。
我看實況根本還是一堆低級錯誤,換了坦克還是一把一把的在滅團。
充其量是縮短了一些拓荒的時數,跟工作室開帳號馬上取得首殺跳成就。
程度上根本天差地遠好嗎?
是不是以為換一個全破過的人來坦,就可以一天全破?
這麼天真的想法,也太看得起ASG公會了。
另外給m82atthew版友,如果你想評論ASG公會"當年的風評",
請不要用簡單的四句推文截圖來呼弄代過。
好好表達你的論述,你文章內說的都是聽說?
弄一個側翼網軍的低級手法來黑
實在沒有比較高尚。
PS 暴雪最終用戶協議跟代打代開的關鍵字有相關的條文如下,
另外用共享作為關鍵字搜尋沒有相關結果
1.3.3. 禁止商業使用:整體或部分地利用平台或遊戲作為任何未被本協議暴雪授權的商業
用途,包括但不限於(i)在商業機構進行遊戲(第 1.2.5.3 規定之情形除外);(ii)蒐集遊
戲內貨幣、物品、資源或藥劑,在平台或遊戲外銷售;(iii)進行遊戲相關服務以換取酬勞,
包括但不限於帳號代打(account boosting)和代為練級(power-leveling)等;(iv)通過或
在平台/遊戲內進行招攬、提供、傳輸或協助任何商業廣告(通過文字、語音或其他方式)
;或者 (v)未經授權組織、推廣、助長或參加任何涉及以暴雪遊戲結果或其他任何方面進
行押注賭博的活動,無論該活動是否在適用法律下構成了賭博行為。
商業行為也就是有收錢的代打代開行為是被禁止的,
如果要檢舉,就參考這一條吧!
--
TW-Nightsong <Asgard>
Arms/Fury Warrior 史塔爾巴克斯
"戰士的浪漫就是衝鋒!!"
--
自從首推珍娜之後我就淡出公會團的運作了,
最近版本末尾王拓荒,看起來弄出了一些紛爭
版上風向帶起來了,剛好最近比較閒。我想針對一些點來討論一下
避免一些不實言論,越傳越誇張。
目前ASG尾王拓荒的武僧坦克是100%的台灣人,他不是我們請來的中國工作室玩家,
也沒有花任何金錢雇用他來打首殺。
他在台服的角色從6版末期就待在ASG公會。是我們公會有史以來技術最好的坦克之一。
可以算他是旅中選手。台服舞台太小了,有志向又有時間的玩家,一定會朝向中國發展
再從中前進歐美服,就像台服之光蘇趴哥一樣。
第二ASG以前是沒有在嘴甚麼中國玩家的,我們甚至有很長一段時間也是中國玩家擔任RL
如果這一年來,因為台灣價值高漲,公會人員在板上有過激言論。我也覺得太超過。
這點也可以算是道德上有瑕疵。我個人認為應該避免強調玩家或是公會的國籍問題。
第三武僧坦克"西熙",恩若司副本只打了一週,就因為重病開刀無法繼續拓荒,所以現任RL
就開了他的帳號進行了1-11M的拓荒。當然因為他坦克的功力太爛,所以我想被F工會反超
是可以預期的,因為他坦克技術水準不夠。嚴重拖累了公會團。
但是他也是代開了打1-11M,可是因為A會進度落後F會,似乎就沒有人出來指責他道德瑕疵ꄊ
所以我可以解讀為代開贏了才有道德問題,需要進行公審。
可是我看了文章,我不太明白Forza覺得嚴重道德瑕疵的點是哪一個
1. 玩家開不是自己註冊的帳號拓荒,代開-道德瑕疵。
2. 請了旅中選手回來協助拓荒開不是本人帳號導致進度反超-道德瑕疵。
如果是第一點,這個坦克在離開時,已經親口告知RL將帳號所有權讓RL全權處理。
如果帳號是個人資產,他無償讓公會使用,因為農團已經拿滿裝了,臨時換坦根本沒有符
合拓荒強度需求的坦克,難道ASG只能重新培養沒裝備的坦克,也不能使用他提供的帳號?
如果真的嚴重道德瑕疵。我只想請問,為什麼ASG進度落後的時候沒有人提出來這件事情。
去年2月拓荒珍娜的時候,我還在團內,那時候公會團只有培養一個DH,但是偏偏那位DH
在拓荒期非常忙碌。可是因為這版裝備機制導致他身上都是超高裝等的神裝。
我也代開他帳號拓荒了好幾天,因為需要DH的BUFF。如果真得非常在意帳號只能本人開
把這點無限上綱的話,從遠古到現在,我敢保證87%的台服進度公會都有過類似狀況。
但是因為跟首殺沒有關係,所以就沒有道德問題? Forza的意思好像是只要有過這樣的行為
就是道德淪喪十惡不赦。那,我希望這個標準可以一視同仁而不僅限於搶首殺的公會。
當然,就規章來說這個是不符規定,ASG公會有不得已的帳號代開行為,我們有道德瑕疵
在此跟台服玩家致歉,身為台服部落PVE代表公會,我們做了不好的示範。
但是如果今天是我面對同樣情況,我可能也會繼續使用該坦克的帳號拓荒。
因為帳號養成不是這麼容易,聽說這版BOE裝備又超貴難取得。我可能也會承受這樣的罵名
繼續使用該帳號。
第二點就是旅中選手的問題了,如果今天佶天鴻神坦什而拓荒結束回來原公會幫忙,
但是是開自己在ASG公會的人物,請問有沒有代開代打的道德問題?
換了一個有經驗的坦克導致進度反超是很明顯的事情,但是如果他今天是開自己台服人物
你會來這邊噴ASG公會代開嗎? 如果你覺得他開自己人物就沒有代開問題呢。
那我就針對ASG拿了生病的坦克捐獻的帳號給他代開這件事情,跟台服玩家說聲抱歉。
我們公會思慮不週,我也會希望它們盡量使用自己的人物去拓荒。
反過來說,我還記得當年拓荒7版古爾丹時。台服之光蘇趴哥,也在打完國服拓荒之後
回台服打PTT公會的尾王拓荒團,甚至也是指揮之一,當然他用的是自己的角色。
我很好奇在Forza的標準內,這樣是不是代打呢?
如果打過歐美服跟中國全破進度,再回來比較進度落後的台服打就被禁止,
我不知道有這樣的規章。
以前工作室代打搶首殺被罵是因為
1. 金錢交易。
2. 直接全團都是工作室開角色,一把過,沒有拓荒的過程。
3. 工作室跟拿成就的公會毫無關聯。
4. 不公平
但是ASG的狀況是
1. 沒有金錢交易
2. 只有一個坦克回來幫忙,還是有拓荒團滅的過程,至少我今天看實況還是在一直滅團
3. 此坦克本來就是ASG公會的人,而且在此公會拓荒了6年以上
4. 不公平
對!其實Forza只是想說的是ASG請了一個有經驗的坦克回來打
不 公 平 ! 拿了首殺勝之不武。甚麼代開都是包裝這個核心理由的好看講法而已。
真的要講,ASG是利用了旅中選手的坦克優勢,在尾王"目前"逆轉了進度沒錯,
是不是無所不用其極拚首殺? 是
是不是ASG資源較多,有旅中選手的經驗? 是
是不是讓人覺得不公平? 是
是不是看ASG不爽? 當然是
但是暴雪沒有說打過歐美服中國服進度比較快的人不能回來台服拓荒吧?
如果要黑ASG代開別人帳號拓荒,這點我覺得確實有違反規章。也歡迎蒐證檢舉
但如前所述,該坦克已將帳號所有權轉交給RL全權使用。
所以請不要用這個去包裝美化你真正想黑的點。
Forza只是覺得ASG找了一個全破過的坦克回來幫忙拓荒進度反超,不公平。
但是這條真的沒有在暴雪的規章內。PVE拓荒這個競賽。
是玩家之間自己的競爭,暴雪並沒有提供獎金,在台服來說也沒有任何贊助收益。
講白一點wowprogress的排名根本也不是暴雪承認的。
只有雙方的名人堂是官方認可的。
可是部落的公會怎麼能去影響聯盟F會的名人堂資格呢?
而且,首殺還沒結束,搞不好F會也會有更強力的武器來反超ASG
為什麼都一副ASG已經全破的講法。
我看實況根本還是一堆低級錯誤,換了坦克還是一把一把的在滅團。
充其量是縮短了一些拓荒的時數,跟工作室開帳號馬上取得首殺跳成就。
程度上根本天差地遠好嗎?
是不是以為換一個全破過的人來坦,就可以一天全破?
這麼天真的想法,也太看得起ASG公會了。
另外給m82atthew版友,如果你想評論ASG公會"當年的風評",
請不要用簡單的四句推文截圖來呼弄代過。
好好表達你的論述,你文章內說的都是聽說?
弄一個側翼網軍的低級手法來黑
實在沒有比較高尚。
PS 暴雪最終用戶協議跟代打代開的關鍵字有相關的條文如下,
另外用共享作為關鍵字搜尋沒有相關結果
1.3.3. 禁止商業使用:整體或部分地利用平台或遊戲作為任何未被本協議暴雪授權的商業
用途,包括但不限於(i)在商業機構進行遊戲(第 1.2.5.3 規定之情形除外);(ii)蒐集遊
戲內貨幣、物品、資源或藥劑,在平台或遊戲外銷售;(iii)進行遊戲相關服務以換取酬勞,
包括但不限於帳號代打(account boosting)和代為練級(power-leveling)等;(iv)通過或
在平台/遊戲內進行招攬、提供、傳輸或協助任何商業廣告(通過文字、語音或其他方式)
;或者 (v)未經授權組織、推廣、助長或參加任何涉及以暴雪遊戲結果或其他任何方面進
行押注賭博的活動,無論該活動是否在適用法律下構成了賭博行為。
商業行為也就是有收錢的代打代開行為是被禁止的,
如果要檢舉,就參考這一條吧!
--
TW-Nightsong <Asgard>
Arms/Fury Warrior 史塔爾巴克斯
"戰士的浪漫就是衝鋒!!"
--
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